Which propaganda is "worse" is, as I already stated, subjective.

I have friends in Ukraine who have nothing to do with the military or even politics. They are the biggest victims here.

The Ukranians have been really pushing this since the soft coup in 2004, where we overthrew the democratically elected president because we didn't like who won.

Passing laws to make speaking Russian a crime is recent, but the social stigmatization of ethnic Russians in place like Kiev was already going on 10+ years ago.

Don't take this personally, but I would only believe that Russia commits war crimes like targeting civilians if it is published in Wikileaks. Otherwise they get the same benefit of the doubt as I give our higher ups who claim that Abu Ghraib was just "a few bad apples."

Of course the "Collateral murder" video was a collective case of organized murder of civilians by US armed forces. We did everything possible to keep that information secret.

Our drone program kills as high as 90% civilians. A drone program that has run for more than a decade killing more than half the time civilians. How hard is it to argue that we are breaking the Geneva convention if we continue a program that we know kills more civilians than military targets? Not hard at all.

We saw in our war in Afghanistan that we didn't care if we killed a civilian by mistake.

What Hitler and Stalin did was horrific. What we did in Dresden was just as horrific. How about we stay in this century with the leaders we have now?

Apropos propgaganda: On the one side I keep seeing reports that morale in Russian troops is super low, because they are a lot of conscripts who had no idea what was going on. Ukraine actually broke the Geneva convention posting videos of Russian POWs making such statements.

Now you're telling me the Russians are blood thirsty murderers targeting civilians. So which is it?

It is the same at higher levels. One set of Western news is telling me Ukraine has fought Russia to a standstill, and Russia will lose. The same Western news sources are saying Ukraine is just the first step, and Russia will take over all of Eastern Europe. So which is it, Russia can't beat Ukraine, or Russia is going to be rolling tanks up the Charles bridge in Prague if we don't create a no-fly zone? That is a rhetorical question just to emphasize why I don't trust statement like, "Russian forces target civilians."

In any case, this is an interesting discussion! I don't claim to know what is right 100%. I just do analysis because I have friends over there and most of my business is in Europe with some VERY close to Ukraine, so what happens there affects me a lot.

[edit] “collateral murder video” not “collateral murder victim”